Whack: I said I wanted to get everybody on the same page. I think that's what we're doing. It's not like bringing in guys and throwing them in a match. We'll bring them in, kind of remake the name. These guys already have the ability and talent, under our banner.

AL: Everything you've talked about has happened. A lot of times people say things in this business and it turns out to be pure bullsh*t.

Whack: In this business, you don't say things unless you have it locked up. You can't bring up all these possibilities, and then when they don't come through, you look like a butthole. The LWF tank is riding along. I'm happy. It couldn't have happened any better way. Maybe the other federations don't care about their product much, and maybe that falls through. This is a family atmosphere, it's still fun.

AL: You're running in one place, Midlothian. You said you wanted to establish a venue, run fewer shows and promote each show like an event. And now you're drawing again.

Whack: Why would anybody be doing this, if they aren't going to put the best that they can out there. We know what we wanted to do, we're doing it. It's fun. Have fun with the product.

AL: Not only do you have CM Punk coming back for a show, but he's here (at the bump factory) working out with the guys, and that's a far cry from a few months ago, when there was still tension.

Whack: I think there may always be some tension. He's in the process of doing everything he wants to, and so am I. It's business. What else can I say.

AL: Maybe I may have been over the top when I said he has the potential to be the biggest draw in Chicago, but I don't know. There seems to be a buzz.

Whack: Anybody who has been following Chicago wrestling history knows no one thought we would ever achieve anything. We have succeeded, after the split, and he was the catalyst. Our real-life situations are creating an interesting wrestling storyline. That's cool, and I hope it works. I'm glad it happened the way it did. He learned. We learned. Now we're putting all our knowledge and skill and talent together and it should be very entertaining.

AL: Is Whack Pack the official name of your group?

Whack: I couldn't think of anything else. Airborne suggested that we call it the Notorious Thugs. (makes buzzer noise). We might do something with his character where he's always "Hey, I've got this idea" and we're shooting it down. He comes up with these ideas and I'm like, are you serious about that and he's like yeah, yeah. You don't like it? (laughing) No, I don't like it. But it's cool. At least he's thinking. We give guys a lot of input, but boy, we had to "veto" that.

AL: The Whack Pack is an interesting bunch, you've got him, Brandon Bishop, Ryan Boz, Vic Capri, you've got you. And you've got Capri vs. Double M book, and MCW had Capri vs. Double M booked.

Whack: It's going to be really interesting to see how it plays out. This is a classic chance, take a look at how we do it. Take a look at how they do it. I know Mr. Zenner has been in contact with CM Punk to try and get him at the last second and say, "I brought him to Chicago first." You know what, I brought everybody to Chicago first. The Mavericks, Jensen, Acid, Synn, all those guys. Whatever Zenner. If you want to head us off at the pass, head us off with a better product. Don't bring a guy in one time, no storyline, no loyalty. Would you rather say, hey I've got you wrestling on a match, or hey, I've got an idea, you're gonna come out on the screen, you'll do a run in. Even if the storyline is, well, you're going to be coming out playing a banjo and wearing a shower curtain. It's more interesting then, here you are, just go out there.

AL: Punk suggested Zenner had contacted him, too.

Whack: Zenner, I'll write down some notes for you, give me a call. Instead, he went to Sam. Wow. What can I say about that.

AL: Do you feel threatened by it?

Whack: No. It's a chance to kill two birds with one stone. They might butt heads, they might not get along, they might see things differently. It's their problem now.

AL: It's interesting that you've got the Whack Pack, and your heel character maybe brings up real-life situations. I guess you can deal with it and be nasty about it if you have to.

Whack: I've never particularly been nasty except in these interviews. You bring out the worst in me. I want to make the best product, and I'm dead serious about it. I'm not trying to sign guys away for spot matches. There is a method to the madness, and if that means burying the hatchet professionally, so be it.

AL: The guys you are bringing in are well established, Bishop, Capri, Punk. They are respected in the Midwest. People would often attack your product and say it's not legitimate, but that'd be difficult at this point.

Whack: Bring in one guy that's a professional, it turns heads. Another guy follows and you're flooded with professional guys. Maybe they haven't had total character development elsewhere. If we can do that, the sky's the limit.

AL: The other side is you suddenly have a very crowded roster. A lot of guys are in danger of being left out.

Whack: Yeah, that's a serious possibility. We try to find something for everybody. If a guy is not the best wrestler, he can be in a video skit.

AL: So you're not going to expand to like a 4 1/2-hour show. That's a long show. I know Mikey MiGo had that problem.

Whack: Four hours. Wow. That's like watching Back to the Future twice, back to back. Four hours, that's half of a work day.

AL: I guess he had a lot of people.

Whack: You've got to know when to tell people no. Or have a 10-man tag match. Have a battle royale.

AL: Plus you've been working on the training, that'll only bring in more guys.

Whack: For every two guys who are ready, there is one guy who's had enough or he's hurt, or something else.

AL: Is CM Punk here for one show or for more?

Whack: I hope to turn this into a pretty regular thing. There's plenty of history, plenty of things we could do.

AL: He knows the drama. He and I talked about the fact that some people aren't exactly going to be thrilled to see him come back.

Whack: They should act more professionally. It's a business. If someone's upset with me for bringing in this guy, then maybe they still have a problem with him. They should come to me, and nobody has come up to me and said, "Why are you doing this?" They know my answer. I want to succeed. Sorry if you're bitter about some rumor, for the newer guys. As far as the old guys, once again, it's business.

AL: So the goal is the sell out Midlothian?

Whack: Breaking fire codes, that's my goal.

AL: What is capacity?

Whack: I'd say 460, 467 is it?

AL: Did you go to the last Windy City show?

Whack: I didn't go to the one at Bourbon Street, but I was there at Taft High School.

AL: I hear you really liked Vito "2 Fingers" Fontaine.

Whack: I think he has my hairline, or what my hairline will be in 6 months.

AL: Yeah, you've even got Ryan Boz saying, you've got to feel for Billy Whack, he's losing his hair over all these fans. You're using it in a storyline.

Whack: It's happening. Genetics are horrible. But, no, no, there is more to the guy (Vito Fontaine) than his hairline. Total charisma. And the crowd was behind him. I was like wow, balding guys can get over. And I feel like I still have a spot somewhere.

AL: So without starting an LWF-Windy City war, were you impressed?

Whack: It was the first time I'd seen them live in 10 years. I've seen a lot of tapes. I saw them at Brawl in the Mall at Bremen Town Mall circa 1990 or 91. That was my first independent wrestling experience. I was like what is this? Boo. Now 10 years later, Mr. Bill is still there. It's like he just opened the door and it's 10 years into the future. But hey, they're still around. They make money and that's ultimately what you want. They've got a training camp and Sam's doing something. Maybe some secret recipe in the food at Dinner of the Stars? Whatever, it works.

AL: I don't think Zenner was at your last show. Maybe you alienated him.

Whack: It doesn't matter.

AL: But now you've got his guys working on your shows, which is an odd twist. Last time you were talking about how he was using your guys.

Whack: We saw it. All right. We got the low down. We know what goes on. You've seen his show once, you've seen it a thousand times. It's an indy show. I'd rather see them with us. Not to toot my own horn, but honk, honk.

...

AL: With Zenner and DeCero working together... you're not buying into that whole thing, are you?

Whack: No, they worked the boards. They worked the workers. I think Chicagowrestling.com is the news. I check it, like the stock market, only for wrestling.

AL: They did work the workers. I'm sure you saw Bigtime's story.

Whack: He's a frustrated guy. Yeah.

AL: Is he welcome in the LWF?

Whack: He's been to the Bump Factory. He's always been nice to me. But everybody's a nice guy to me, then 6 months down the line, they hate me.

AL: You've got Capri, Bishop, Cabana, Punk, Airborne.

Whack: It's a superfed right here.

AL: Other people are structuring invasion angles and you could make the argument that's the whole Whack Pack idea.

Whack: Screw the invasion angle. MCW, Windy City, they need to fix that. You don't really know who's in MCW. There really aren't any MCW guys who are loyal. Who's loyal?

AL: Jayson Reign.

Whack: OK, Jayson Reign. The one guy I can think of who would wave the MCW flag. Acid's over there, he was the champ, you would think he would be one of their flagship characters. I don't know. I'm sure if I called him, friend to friend - and we've been friends for years - and said you know what, I'd really like to do this. He'd work our shows. He could still be MCW champion, but if I were Zenner, I'd be thinking, hey, you're our champion, why are you working other shows. As far as MCW vs. Windy City, Windy City does have established guys like Steve Boz. MCW doesn't. That whole angle is not so good.

...

Whack: Our fans are fanatical. They know the characters, they know the guys, they know the stories. I've been to Windy City and MCW shows. It's not the same. They watch the matches, but I don't think they get into it as much. We present stories, on the screen.

AL: You've got Charkoal getting a decent response.

Whack: He hasn't even been in the ring yet. Balthazar. See that plastic lamp over there. People know that. It's an inanimate object. Hey, screw the wrestling guys, let's bring out a Pringles can, oh my god, it's a Pringles can. You don't have to pay a Pringles can.

AL: How important is the Oct. 27 show to the LWF? I mean, it's not Bloodbath.

Whack: Well, that makes it more important. I know the matches for Bloodbath, and I'm marking out already. I mean, some of these guys I haven't seen together. I haven't seen CM Punk for two years. I've seen tapes. I'm very impressed. Cabana is impressive. Just think, we've got Ryan Boz, Capri, Bishop, Airborne. It is a who's who.

AL: I know you're not going to say you canceled that Highland show because you didn't have enough fans.

Whack: It was an act of God. And you can take that for what it's worth.

AL: But it was clear you weren't drawing.

Whack: We had Airborne there, Brandon Bishop. Grudge, Maverick, Boz, all those guys. Low attendance, power outage, whatever. It shouldn't have happened. We weren't promoting right. Indiana is cursed.

AL: There is somebody running there every weekend.

Whack: Are there any big crowds there?

AL: I've never been there. I don't know. It's not your turf, though. MEW runs there.

Whack: I haven't seen an MEW show. I don't know all that much, but his posts, it sounds familiar. He's cocky and witty. If he can pull it together, he might be a contender.

AL: You mean how he'd be the crazy kid.

Whack: They might be doing now what we were doing in 1993, way over the top characters. Once you refine that and get characters together, they could give us a run for our money.

AL: Did you believe if LWF could only get on TV, it would take off.

Whack: Yeah. It's easier to say, hey, just turn on channel, you know.

AL: The last time we talked you mentioned TV guys.

Whack: I was planning on September, so we're in October and we haven't produced, but I said I'm hoping, not that we got it all locked up.

...

AL: There was much to-do a while back. I heard a lot about Kingpin and a lot about Brawn, but nothing ever came of it. Both said they wanted to do an interview, but it didn't happen. Do you know what that's all about?

Whack: Kingpin I haven't talked to in 2 weeks. We're friends, everything is fine. Brawn is mad Punk is coming back. Venom is mad because Punk is coming back.

AL: Do they have personal issues with him?

Whack: It's business. They have personal issues with him, but they want to take it out on me. The business wasn't working, they signed the papers and they're gone and now business is working a little better. Brawn wanted more homegrown talent, which is understandable. Let's mix it up with other guys. Let's go after CM Punk. Last show Brawn and Venom were on, they were high-fiving each other, they're done. And when I heard that, the LWF brotherhood had ended. They officially left, now they're mad. I'm still legally running the company with Supreme. I'm sorry. Nobody knows more than I do what CM Punk put us through. If they're mad at me for that, that LWF is finally drawing again ... and we haven't even brought him back yet. Imagine when he comes back, we'll make a lot of money. I brought in Charkoal, they are mad. They say it's a slap in the face. No, high-fiving when you're leaving the company is a slap in the face. That shows you officially turned your back to the whole thing. ... They haven't even called me. They called everybody else. Call me, I'll tell you why I'm doing it. ... Brawn hasn't told me to my face, I'll just assume we're still friends. What irks me slightly is they're pissed at me for bringing in Punk. I'm going to be 28 years old, in 2 years, I'll be 30. So I bring in 1 guy they don't like. I can't apologize enough, but it's my show.

AL: You talked about how people would come in the old days, and now you're bringing back parts of the old days and people are surprised. They're talking.

Whack: It seems to be working. They have to understand. They hate me for this, but give me the benefit of the doubt. That almost hurts me, but they haven't called me. ... They're just mad.

AL: Brawn has a reputation of having quite a temper. Does that concern you. Are you concerned at all about the show?

Whack: It's possible. Brawn called me yesterday, I wasn't home. I returned his call. I'm sure he read the Punk interview and now he's really angry. But it's not like me and CM Punk are going out to dinner.

AL: Not going out for fish and chips.

Whack: Punk and I went out for fish and chips one time. This place called Captain Meeds. ... It's a funny story. We ordered all this food. We're eating and we left. Mike Broox was with us, that'll give you an idea of how dated the story is. We leave and we're clutching our stomachs. I swear I was seeing things. We all got sick. The next day, the place is boarded out. That was our fish and chips story. ... But if those guys are mad at me, we should talk. I will try to explain it to them, but that's if they want to listen.

AL: They have been offered interviews.

Whack: I hear he's working MEW.

AL: And NRW.

Whack: I'm sure he could help them. I'm sure he has some ideas. Maybe Brawn will come back, if he wants to. But he should give me the benefit of the doubt.

AL: So the ownership right now is you and Supreme and that's it?

Whack: CM Punk referred to it in his interview as the 8-headed dragon. That's what our company used to be. There were 7 or 8 of us, so we all were owners, and now it's down to maybe who wanted to do it. Venom quit 3 times. If I'm spending all of my free time working on LWF, I want it to be the best it could possibly be.

AL: What other free time do you have? I guess playing video games.

Whack: I bring all that stuff up here. So maybe Ringmaster and Grin can give me ideas.

AL: Are the ideas from you? From the guys?

Whack: Mostly from me. Johnny Mac helps out putting the matches together. He's a big help.

AL: Is he getting back in the ring anytime soon?

Whack: We're headed toward the Frat Boys. I think it's going to happen soon.

AL: You've got Brandon and Airborne and Mimic and Boz. Your training process has changed.

Whack: I wish everybody knew about the LWF training school. I don't know what goes on at other schools, but there is legitimate care put in. They don't beat the hell out of guys for no reason. It's not a boot camp. And we're still the cheapest around at 1,000 American dollars.

AL: The show is still 10. Is it gonna stay that way?

Whack: We could boost up the price. We could and we really should.

AL: To 18?

Whack: Is that what MCW charges?

AL: He says it's in line. I don't know what it's in line with. ... You guys were around $15.

Whack: It was $14 and attendance was down, and it was a hassle making change.

AL: Do you enjoy being this evil character?

Whack: Some of the braver people came up and said that's not gonna work. I do all the talking. But I think it works.

AL: How much of it is based on frustrations and feelings you were experienced?

Whack: All of it. It's a great thing, and everything works as a heel. If I trip on the stairs coming up, I get a reaction. I can turn around and yell shut up. I can point out one person in the audience and stare at them for an uncomfortable amount of time. They'll go home and tell their friends, that guy stood there and pointed at me. It's a lot of fun. It's therapy.

AL: What you said the first time didn't seem to be untrue.

Whack: I was very nervous. I thought I was gonna pass out right before the segment. I was holding the mic and it was shaking. I went out and I just blacked out. I didn't look at Vic once and I went back and started chain smoking like an idiot. I saw the tape. It wasn't so bad and it was definitely fun. Now I walk around the ring and there's heat on every side. So it's cool.

AL: And you get to swear a lot more.

Whack: Well, I only wanted to swear for the first one. If a wrestler turns heel, he can grab a foreign object. If a commentator turns heel, he's got to be really nasty. So I got that point over by swearing. But I'm not going to keep using the F-word. There are kids there for Gods sakes.

AL: You did use quite a few.

Whack: I swear I blacked out.

AL: And now you're aligned with Vic Capri, and he's always been a heel.

Whack: He'd get heat. He's recognized. I'm recognized. We put it together. I wasn't sure about him. I know he's technically sound. He's got a great look. I wanted to make sure he hit the ground running and got a reaction.

AL: Of course, you also used Jayson and he still says you didn't use him properly.

Whack: I don't know what he means, we didn't use him properly. Was he gonna win our world title and go to MCW, no Acid did that, and he was a card-carrying member. We were testing the grounds with Jayson. He did what he did, then went to MCW. He was cool to have around. I'm not sure what he wanted.

AL: So Capri is more invested in the storyline.

Whack: It could have been Jayson Reign doing what Vic Capri is doing.

AL: You've got him, Airborne, Bishop. When you chose them to come in, did you have the idea of the Whack Pack?

Whack: No, I didn't. The idea was I was going heel and I wanted to have Vic there. It's easy to get over as a heel. And then it was Brandon, Airborne. The reasoning is I've made all these LWF guys and they haven't done anything for me. I'm gonna bring in trained professionals to show all the LWF wrestlers. I made you and I could destroy you. I thought about the Furies.

AL: Are they still welcome?

Whack: Yeah, I like the look.

AL: The music?

Whack: We went back and forth. It is cheesy, but once you hear it, you know that's their music.

AL: As far as where the angle takes you. I would assume CM Punk is coming to oppose the Whack Pack.

Whack: He's legendary in LWF. There is a legitimate history between him and Supreme. Him and myself.

AL: He is a trained professional.

Whack: He is a trained professional and my group is trained professionals. Is he coming in to work with the trained professionals or against them? Maybe he wants to show Supreme. God knows I'm not gonna wrestle.

AL: No, you'd only wrestle his brother. I've watched that match every now and then.

Whack: I don't even have a copy, and that's a good thing.

AL: So now Boz is the champion. What brought that about?

Whack: That guy has earned it. He's totally loyal and he's devoted his life to this. He deserves it. Names came up, who it should be, and he is the obvious choice right now.

AL: At this point, 10 or 11 guys could be plausible champions. There are possibilities.

Whack: Yeah, probably 9 or 10. Who knows.

AL: Supreme.

Whack: Wouldn't it be interesting if Supreme beats Boz and Punk challenges Supreme. That could happen. ... CM Punk has never been the LWF world champion. Never. Jensen, Acid, Supreme, Boz, Grudge. They've been champion. CM Punk has not.

AL: Now you've got Charkoal.

Whack: He had a nice run. Yeah, there's a lot of names in the mix. ... Even if no one else came in, we'd still have enough to play with. That's our goal right now. Make it the most interesting and fun, technically sound product there is out there. There is a lot of interest.